Questions about DC's relaunch

[RoIIo Tomassi]

I read the DCnU Birds of Prey issue I bought for 50 cents.

Now that Babs is Batgirl, she really comes across as an amateur crime fighter. She's constantly deferring to Black Canary. And I don't even know why Katana and Poison Ivy would be Birds of Prey. Other than DC had a surplus of female characters and weren't sure where to put them. Also, heroes don't chop suspects heads off. Katana lopped off a dudes head, and it only raised mild ire from both Canary AND Batgirl. Like she had scooped icing off the cake before they could light the candles. Like "ugh. Katana! Don't do that..." and not "Hey. We're heroes and you just KILLED a man. Now we have to stop you."

*sigh* DC Comics 1938-2011 RIP


I also read the Batgirl issue with *barf* Knightfall. Wow. So its not just BoP, Barbara became stupid when she put the Batgirl costume back on. The part with the guy caught in the bear trap was so dumb, I think it rubbed off on me. I think I've forgotten how to do algebra.

[RoIIo Tomassi]

The Catwoman issue (issue 10) was actually good. It did what a serialized comic was supposed to do by giving me enough information about the supporting characters and ongoing subplots. Specifically, the cops chasing Selina, the dirty cops those cops are investigating, and Selina's theiving buddy, Sparks and her friend Gwen. It also had a fairly interesting and creepy villain in Dollhouse, who would fit in perfectly with Batman's rogues.
Of the dozen or more DCnU I've dabbled in since last September, this is by far the most well put together. Kudos to Winick for salvaging a tiny glimmer of hope for me for DC. I would definitely buy the next issue if I wasn't avoiding all of DCs shite.

[anarky]

Forgive me; I'm lazy.

Is the creative team on Catwoman the same as on #1. Because I'm pretty sure I read that whole issue in excerpts, and it was shitty.

[RoIIo Tomassi]

I'm also too lazy to go back and look.
I'm not saying the issue was amazing. But compared to the rest of the crap I've read from DC in the last twelve months, it was a fucking Shakespeare illustrated by Rembrandt. But, holy shit, they've set the bar so goddamn low Chinese people are winning the limbo contest just by walking around.

[anarky]

Let's see... they got Morrison and Perez, then swiftly chased them away.

They ditched Nicieza for Lobdell (shades of X-Men!!).

They've canned or otherwise split with guys like Rucka and Dixon over the past couple of years.

Rob Liefeld and Keith Giffen seem to be their go-to replacement guys. I love Giffen, but he's got to be stretched thin, and I wonder if someone needs to buy him some food because he seems really hard-up.

And they finally decided Breyfogle should no longer be a persona-non-grata... then stuck him on an online book.

[Diabolical]

Catwoman still has the team of Winick/March (the last 2 issues have had a fill in artist).

Catwoman has been decent, but never great. Something about the way Selina is written feels off. The subplots have been good but the Spark character has been pretty lame. I disagree about Dollhouse having potential as a bat villain - not enough info and a poor design.

As for Batgirl, I thought it started out good, with Babs getting back on her feet again (no pun intended), with self-doubts and relearning how to be hero. But now it just feels stagnant with boring new villains. Even the recent subplot with the return of her crazy serial killer brother ( I must've missed that story). I've been considering dropping it.

[RoIIo Tomassi]

The James Gordon Jr returning happened during Scott Snyder's run on the end of Detective Comics first series(gawd, it pains me to write that). It was a slow burning subplot that lasted about a year.
Of course, in the DCnU timeline it's fucking impossible and makes no fucking sense since its only been "Five Years". Unless he's thirteen years old in the new Batgirl stories. Or perhaps he and Dick Grayson drank the same aging Kool-Aid. And they both went from age ten to age 24 in the last five years...

Dollhouse could lose the dreadlocks or whatever that is. Gorgon hair?
But the idea that this guy is pulling drug addicts and hookers off the street and making them feel safe and helping them get clean, but the twist is he's going to carve them open, sell their organs on the black market, and then stuff their carcass to use in his giant dioramas is fucking insane. I love it.

[Diabolical]

The Bat-titles aren't part of the New 52, I'm convinced. It just doesn't match up.

The Dollhouse idea is solid, but the execution needs work.

[RoIIo Tomassi]

Probably. I only have the one issue to go by, but I did like the concept.
Some of the best villains didn't blossom until the right writer came along and made them A-List threats.

I think I got this Bat-time line figured out.

Batman becomes Batman. Year One happens. James Gordon Jr. Is born.
In year two, a bunch of stuff happens. Including the birth of Barbara Gordon.
In year three, a ten year old Dick Grayson's parents are killed and he becomes Robin. Also, a two year old Gordon Jr kills some people, and a one year old Babs dons a Batgirl costume. But then she gets shot in the back and learns computers.
In year four, an eleven year old Dick quits, Jason is Robin for about half an hour, dies, Tim Drake becomes Robin for the weekend. Bruce dies. Twelve year old Dick becomes Batman for a year, with ten year old Damian as his Robin.
Year five. Bruce comes back. Thirteen year old Dick does a bunch of steroids and shit so he looks twenty something. Four year old Barbara has a mysterious procedure that fixes spinal injuries. The side effect is she sprouts four feet and grows boobs. Her five year old brother, the serial killer, is also back, but he carries a circus mirror around with him so it looks like he's in his twenties.

Problem solved! Enjoy your Excrement New 52 Universe!!

[RoIIo Tomassi]

But seriously, The Joker killed Jason with the crowbar he was using to steal the tires off the Batmobile. Batman swung down, said "Kid, you got moxie! Here, put these on!"and and handed him the Robin costume. And while he was changing, Joker broke out of Arkham, saw the crowbar laying next to the Batmobile and picked it up. When Jason came out of the changing room in the alley, Joker beat him to death. Half an hour. Seriously. That's the way it happened.

[anarky]

That can't be right.

Barbara was a tween in Year One, IIRC.

[RoIIo Tomassi]

Yeah, because in the old DCU, she was Gordon's adopted daughter/niece.
In the DCnU, she's his actual daughter. And since James Jr. is the firstborn, she'd have to be younger than him. Hence, she's only four years old.

Geoff Johns said if you had a problem with that than FUCK YOU!!

[anarky]

Damn, I'd forgotten she was adopted.

I'm trying to remember the origins of James Jr. IIRC, he was born in Year One, or a baby in Year One, and Mrs. Gordon (don't have the foggiest about her name) left Jim because of his affair with Sarah Essen, either toward the end of Year One or shortly afterward. Wasn't James Jr supposed to have died?

I fucking wish people would stop saying the DCnU is a success because their sales are up. They're up from miserably far below Marvel, and still at a level that would've gotten any book canceled in a heartbeat a decade or so ago, even if it was by the fucking EIC himself.

[RoIIo Tomassi]

Mrs. Gordon's name was(wait for it...!) Barbara. She had James Jr during the story arc of Year One. Then the little shit got kidnapped for use as leverage against Jim. Batman saves him at the end of the series.

As far as I know, all the serial killer stuff was brought up first in the Snyder issues. If it was alluding to an earlier story, I must've missed those issues. Or forgotten them.

[anarky]

That's right. I remember "Barbara" now.

Doesn't she leave Jim off-panel and take James Jr with her?

God, the serial killer angle is just bullshit. As of now, Bruce's brother is a mastermind criminal, Bruce's ancestor is an immortal supervillain, Jim's son is a serial killer, Dick's circus family were all assassins, and we already knew Spoiler's dad was a shitty supervillain. Christfarts. If Alfred's relations ever show up, they're doomed to be portrayed as villains.