Questions about DC's relaunch

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anarky
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Re: Questions about DC's relaunch

Post by anarky »

All kidding aside, no matter what they're claiming about #1 issue sales, I would not be surprised if we can say in all seriousness that DC Comics ended in _______ a few months from now. :(

Something really jumped out at me last night on the way home from the book fair. Marvel was represented (albeit nothing I cared about, and, really, if she wanted to read Secret Wars I'd go dig out the old back issues and buy any I'm still missing and not fuck around with a "retelling"), and Dark Horse was well represented with the Star Wars stuff. Scholastic was represented (though I mentioned in the other thread how odd I found Bone's absence to be), as were Boom! (though, sadly for them, their Disney stuff, which I'm sure was their cash cow, is in a bit of limbo until Marvel actually picks up the licenses) and a few smaller publishers I wasn't familiar with, but whose stuff seemed shitty (though, hey, it might appeal to kids).

And, on the way home, my daughter told me how she and a couple of the boys in her kindergarten like to play Brave and the Bold at recess. And that it was disappointing that there was nothing in any way related to Superman or Batman there.

So who the hell is DC targeting with the relaunch? They've said 18-35 year olds are their target audience. Judging from what I've seen, and despite the assertion that "women wear pants" a few months ago, it's not the potential female readers. (Maybe Batwoman or Birds of Prey might appeal more than the cheesecake of Catwoman and Red Hood that's been plastered all over the interwebs for the past week.) The content sure as hell isn't going to be good for kids; would you give a 10-year-old a book where Batman fucks Catwoman for five pages, or where Speedy and Robin play ping-pong with Starfire's pussy?

Which raises the question: how many possible male readers, aged 18-35, do you reckon are out there who weren't reading DC comics already?

They need kids! I'm not saying they have to pander, but don't show Catwoman straddling Batman and playing with his nips for five pages. And, despite what they say constantly, kids obviously are open to reading comics and like superheroes. Sure, they're not buying comics, but that's more because they don't fucking sell them anywhere, and the few remaining places that do charge $3+ per fucking book. Christ almighty, you've got three fucking Batman books, not counting spinoffs; isn't there room for one that someone who's not old enough to vote might enjoy?

You've got the whole thing spearheaded by Geoff Johns, with the biggest fanboy hard-on for the Silver Age in existence; Dan Didio, who hates kids and original ideas; Jim Lee, second only to Rob Liefeld (also on board) as the most responsible for the EXTREME!!!!!!1!!!!! turn in comics in the 1990s that turned off a shit-ton of readers; and Scott Lobdell and Bob Harras, who, along with Fabian Nicieza (who's also along for the ride), completely fucked the X-Men into oblivion.

Once the novelty wears off, the long-term effects cannot be good.
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jjreason
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Re: Questions about DC's relaunch

Post by jjreason »

Good God, Action #1 was horrible. The characterization of Superman (arrogant, I'd even go so far as to say petulant) was so far away from what I'm used to that I was basically agape for the entire (however many) pages. I couldn't even look at Superman #1 in the aftermath, that will have to happen today or tomorrow. This is a COMPLETELY different take than All-Star Superman - Diabolical would likely love it.
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anarky
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Re: Questions about DC's relaunch

Post by anarky »

It bugs me to see apologists saying that this is how Superman was characterized in the original Action #1, then, when people point out that that Batman was a cold-blooded killer with a gun in his first appearance, they say that's an inappropriate comparison.

Superman is virtue. He's not perfect, but he tries to be. What makes him interesting is how, because of his adopted parents and the values they instilled, he walks on eggshells at all times because of his power levels. One misstep, and Superman goes from beloved hero to public enemy #1, and that misstep could even come out of shaking hands with someone if Supes isn't paying attention.

If you want a deconstruction of Superman, God knows there have been enough published over the years. You can even get one by Alan Moore and Rob Liefeld, of all the bizarre combinations.
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anarky
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Re: Questions about DC's relaunch

Post by anarky »

Here's another misstep on DC's part that came to me tonight while watching TV. (Whatever could I be watching?)

It appears the new Aquaman is basically the same old Aquaman, with a little humor based on the public in the DCnU thinking Aquaman is a joke. However, and I realize it's going to sound like I'm joking but I'm 101% serious: the new Aquaman title should be as close to his portrayal on The Brave & The Bold as they can get away with.

Think about it. Aquaman is a joke. Even though he's had his share of fans, when has he ever been truly popular in comics? Never. However, ask most people who watch TB&TB, and they'll agree that Aquaman is their second favorite hero on the show. Well, except for those who like him more than Batman.

In 52 different titles, there should be enough room for multiple tones in the books. A full-on humor title should have a home among that many superhero books. B&TB Aquaman is overloaded on testosterone, obsessed with being a hero (to the point where he names all his adventures), not particularly bright, and trying desperately to keep his wife and son happy. He's a weird combo of the Silver Age Aquaman who fought a giant rabbit, the SuperFriends Aquaman who talked to fish, the super-manly Aquaman from the 90s comics and Justice League TV show, and the perceptions everyone has about how stupid the character is. It all adds up to a level of silliness and absurdity that trumps anyone else on TB&TB aside from Bat-Mite, and he's never stupid if you're able to laugh at the entire premise of guys in colored undies fighting other guys in colored undies. No matter how serious things may be for Batman, when Aquaman appears, things are going to get a bit wonky.

So focus on that. It's the ONLY time anyone, much less everyone, has loved the character. Have Arthur Curry, King of Atlantis and loving father, defending those poor humans on the surface from evil menaces like Crazy Quilt and the Ten-Eyed Man. Find ridiculous uses for his fish powers. Have him jump to conclusions and always be obsessed with having adventures he can call things like "The Time Superman and I Fought a Giant Taco-Powered Nerd Named Macho Randy!" Written by someone who can do comedy well (Giffen comes to mind, and, hey, it looks like they have no beef with him like they do many of their better former writers), have it appeal to every age group, and be drawn by someone with a clean, cartoony, but not overly humorous style (someone like Steve Rude or Scott Wegener, maybe).

Because, really, playing Aquaman straight in 2011 only makes him a psycho or a Submariner clone.

Again, I'm serious. If mabs ventures into the Comic Books forum, he'll back me up on this. In the meantime, here are some clips of Aquaman just being Aquaman. (Unfortunately, I can't find a short clip from tonight's ep where he summons silverfish to help him and says, "A fish is a fish, even if it's a bug!") Tell me this shit wouldn't go over well. Oh, wait, it already has.




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jjreason
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Re: Questions about DC's relaunch

Post by jjreason »

Superman #1 was a much more familiar Superman type story than Action #1. They didn't delve too much into Superman's character, but they did use Clark a bit & showed him seemingly pining over Lois, who is with another guy. I can't speak to it much from the reset perspective as I honestly have no clue where the characters were when the classic series ended, but if this is a new development (a la the Parker divorce) it actually puts the relationship back where it started which should work for them. I don't imagine I'll continue buying it, but I'll give this issue a passing grade.
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Rollo Tomassi
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Re: Questions about DC's relaunch

Post by Rollo Tomassi »

So Perez is off Superman already?
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Re: Questions about DC's relaunch

Post by anarky »

Probably had too much integrity. :) The man is a funnybook god, after all.

In all seriousness, if I had more faith in the DCnU as a whole, the sheer number of Keith Giffen-penned books would give me wood. But the whole thing is such a clusterfuck, even that can't get me interested.

I have to wonder why the fuck Lobo, Ambush Bug, or even Heckler didn't get an ongoing in the new 52, given the level of Giffen's involvement. As I mentioned in my post about Aquaman, there seems to be a dearth of humor. Hell, there could even be a title that's the three of them in rotation. (I don't think Heckler was in the DCU proper, but they own him, and, hey, they stuck the fucking WildCATs in there, because everyone loves the WildCATs except Jim Lee. Just a bit of "total opposite" humor there.)
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Re: Questions about DC's relaunch

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Rollo Tomassi wrote:So Perez is off Superman already?
One of the Ainitmuthafuckingneats is reporting he's off as of #6, at which one Dan Jurgens will take over the art with Keith Giffen. Perez "may" continue on as the tracer or something.
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Re: Questions about DC's relaunch

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First wave of cancellations has been announced. Who ever would have thought Hawk & Dove and Mr. Terrific would be the first to go?

Oh yeah. Everyone here. :roll:
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Re: Questions about DC's relaunch

Post by Rollo Tomassi »

Ooh! Now I can update my 'find it in the dollar bin' lists.

I'm surprised it was only six book that got canned.
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anarky
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Re: Questions about DC's relaunch

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Does Bob Harras want DC to go bankrupt?

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=36420

I know he's your BFF, Rollo, but, damn. Three titles for a guy with serious deadline issues? Plotting or co-plotting when that's his weakest point. Giving Giffen's signature creation to fucking Liefeld? Seriously, Liefeld writing Lobo makes me want to weep.
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Re: Questions about DC's relaunch

Post by Rollo Tomassi »

Oh for the luvva....FUCK YOU UNIVERSE.

It was bad enough that fucking assclown was assigned to my beloved Hawk & Dove after 20 years without an ongoing (which was mercifully canceled).

But you do NOT get to announce he's doing my FAVORITE DC CHARACTER EVER

ON MY FUCKING BIRTHDAY!!!!!!


:frus: :frus: :frus: :x :evil: :x :frus: :frus: :evil: :frus: :x :evil: :frus: :frus: :frus:

If they announce a Starman book starring Prince Gavyn by that douchenozzle, I'll know those fuckers are trolling here and I'm going out an buying two things. A pair of steel toed boots. And a plane ticket. Because Rob Liefeld WILL be getting KICKED IN THE NUTS!!!! :frus:

(PS Even Liefeld can't ruin how awesome Deathstroke is in that drawing. That muthahfuckah is BADASS. I want a Deathstroke Smiley stat.)
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anarky
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Re: Questions about DC's relaunch

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You know that the universe hates us. Liefeld will be taking over the Marvel GIJoe and Transformers continuations soon.

You thought Cross-Country was EXTREME!!!1!! before?
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Re: Questions about DC's relaunch

Post by Rob Liefeld »

Happy birthday, Rollo Tomassi! I knew I had to repay your kindness years ago somehow, and buying you hot dogs wasn't enough. No, I had to find out who your favorite character was and give you the epic to end all epics starring that character.

So you haven't heard the best of it. Deathstroke is going to be chilling in the hot tub with Batgirl, because he's AWESOME!! that way, when he gets the call from Batman that Lobo has escaped Arkham and Batman's too lame to fight someone so cool. And Deathstroke goes there to fight Lobo and it's all pchew! pchew! arrgh, you cut off my arm! And then they fall in a Stone Temple Pilots concert and start moshing, because I know Diabolical loves Stone Temple Pilots, but I think Duff McKagen should be the lead singer, so he is in the New 52. Which oughtta be really cool, because I used to write for Deadpool and Bloodwulf while listening to STP's hit "Jeremy." Then Lobo and Deathstroke decide they're going to be BFF's and Deathstroke's all like, "You're awesome, Lobo!" And they become partners, and they're fighting the Joker because I'm almost to the third board of Arkham Asylum, but they find out the Joker is really--wait for it--Deathstroke's dad! And as Joker is dying because Lobo beat his head in with a wrench (ha! that's irony!!), he tells Deathstroke about his other son, Anarky, who is a cyborg from the future, only he's a baby right now. So Deathstroke has to track down baby Anarky, and it turns out he's not really a baby, but he's Damian Wayne! Because Batman and the Joker didn't realize it, but they were the same guy! And then they all become friends and start a team called X-Deathstroke and they fight the Punisher.

I haven't figured out how to put Starman in it. I tried reading up on the character, but the book had too many words. I think he should be like David Bowie, since I heard a David Bowie song once. Maybe Starman is a lackey for the big bad, the Music Meister, or maybe I'll put that into my Watchmen II that Jim Lee just gave to me to do.

This should be within the first ten issues, so it'll all be out within the next decade sometime. Or maybe not.
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Re: Questions about DC's relaunch

Post by Venkman »

You have the best ideas ever, Rob Liefeld!
You should be President! I had a dream once where Rob was President. And instead of running the Rob Liefeld fan club, I was running the President Rob Liefeld fan club! It was the bestest!!
You need anything Rob? Wash your car? Cook you breakfast? Eggs benedict maybe? No? Need me to fondle your balls? Tickle your anus? Make you a nice fondue? I Love You Rob!!!
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