NO! (Don't shoot me in the face! The Punisher Topic)

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Diabolical
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NO! (Don't shoot me in the face! The Punisher Topic)

Post by Diabolical »

Talk about ruining someone's day...
comicbookresources.com says Garth Ennis may be leaving The Punisher!
I hear Garth Ennis is leaving "The Punisher."

I understand after seven years, he feels he's said all he has to say with the character, and he's moving on to other work, including new Marvel projects.

He leaves behind him a quite extraordinary run on the book taking the character through both slapstick black comedy and a serious and compelling study at violence in the criminal world and how it spills over, Garth Ennis has imbued his characters with humanity, emotion, desires and quite a lot of bullets.

From his original 12 issue black comedic run in 2000 with Steve Dillon for Marvel Knights, a second run that began with even more madcap stories, but then matured into stronger more adult themes for three years before the book went into all out MAX territory where it has remained, with a number of miniseries and one shots such as Born, Barracuda, The End, The Cell and The Tyger.

One of the most remarkable reinterprentive runs at Marvel, up there with Grant Morrison's "New X-Men", Brian Bendis' "Ultimate Spider-Man," Frank Miller's "Daredevil," Peter David's "Hulk," Byrne and Claremont's" Uncanny X-Men," Byrne's "Fantastic Four", Garth Ennis' "Punisher" has redefined the character, refreshed it, taken the extraordinary and made it the norm.

Just remember, before Garth came back to the title, Frank Castle was an avenging angel with wings and drawn by Pat Lee. Now he's the most fascinating character being published by Marvel.

It will be a tough act to follow. Luckily Mike Benson, writer of one of my face US TV shows, "Entourage" and the "Punisher MAX Annual" is one name being lined up to take over the book.
Fuck fuck fuck!
I really hope this isn't true!
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Re: NO!

Post by anarky »

Now, I haven't read the annual in question, but a writer from Entourage seems an odd choice. Then again, the show does win all sorts of awards.

Is all the Ennis stuff collected in TPB? I wouldn't mind reading it. I know you're going to bop me upside the head since I haven't.
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Re: NO!

Post by Diabolical »

The annual won't be out until Sept 26.
Most of them are collected (I think Confederacy of Dunces is out of print).

Marvel Knights
The Punisher Vol. 1: Welcome Back, Frank (1-12)
The Punisher Vol. 2: Army of One (1-6)
The Punisher #7 (contains a one-page back-up story by Ennis; 8-12 have no Ennis)
The Punisher Vol. 3: Business as Usual (13-18)
The Punisher Vol. 4: Full Auto (20-27)
The Punisher Vol. 5: Streets of Laredo (19, 27-32)
The Punisher Vol. 6: Confederacy of Dunces (33-37)

MAX
Punisher: Born (Frank in Vietnam story, 4 issues)
Max 1: In the Beginning (1-6)
Max 2: Kitchen Irish (7-12)
Max 3: Mother Russia (13-18)
Max 4: Up is Down, Black is White (19-24)
Max 5: The Slavers (25-30)
Max 6: Barracuda (31-36)
Max 7: Man of Stone (37-42)
Max 8: Widowmaker (43-49)
Punisher Max: From First to Last (3 One-shots: Tyger, The Cell, and The End)
Punisher Presents: Barracuda (spin-off, 6 issues)

Issue #50 is the most current issue.
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Re: NO!

Post by Zero »

Nothing good lasts forever. It was an amazing run. The Cell was particularly chilling.

I would like to see Ennis do Ghost Rider. His GR: Trail of Tears mini series was great.



EDIT. In semi-related comic news, Claremont succeeds in torpedoing what used to be one of my favorite titles with his inept writing. Exiles #100 is the series final issue. Goddamn you Chris Claremont. Ingest feces and expire.
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Re: NO!

Post by jjreason »

He somehow signed a deal with the devil - how many books has he killed now? I can't believe he hasn't hung up the writing tools yet.
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Re: NO!

Post by anarky »

I think it's safe to say that, hard as it is to believe, Claremont's career as a shitty writer has now eclipsed his career as the best writer in the business for a span of several years.
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Diabolical, I thought you were exaggerating....

Post by anarky »

I just read a preview of PWJ #13.

Fuck. That's BAD.

I figured it wasn't good, since everyone here bashes it. I had no idea that it was this bad.

The art may very well be the weakest I've ever seen on a comic from the Big Two. It is horrible. There is practically no storytelling going on there.

The writing is shit. Utter shit. I won't even say it's sloth shit, since that's giving it too much credit. It's just ridiculous.

And why the fuck would the Rhino be working for two dumbass kids? He's the fucking Rhino. I don't care how down on his luck he is, he's still got serious superpowers.

Frank is way too talkative. How can people bitch about villains "monologuing" when he's holding a full-on fucking conversation with Rhino before (presumably) trying to kill him?

Worst part of the preview: Rhino yelling "Oh yeah!" and some guy yelling "Oh no!" Had the art been told by someone with a basic understanding of storytelling technique, it could've actually have been somewhat amusing. As it is, it looks like some forced attempt at a joke by a middle schooler.

Wow. It's like it's told on a 3rd grade level, yet the exit wounds and language tell me that's not the target audience. Who the fuck is buying this shit?
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Re: Diabolical, I thought you were exaggerating....

Post by vynsane »

anarky wrote:The art may very well be the weakest I've ever seen on a comic from the Big Two. It is horrible. There is practically no storytelling going on there.
really??? wow... i really like cory walker's stuff.
The writing is shit. Utter shit. I won't even say it's sloth shit, since that's giving it too much credit. It's just ridiculous.
that, i'll give you. i'm just hoping that your opinion of the art was affected by the story.
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Re: Diabolical, I thought you were exaggerating....

Post by anarky »

It's possible. My problem is mostly the storytelling, but I'm not sure if Fraction uses full-script or plot method. If full-script, the fault falls on Fraction. The aforementioned "Oh yeah!" panel is especially bad; it should have at the very least been two panels.

I did a quick look and, though I can't find anything specific to Fraction, it does look like the "Marvel method" is pretty much unused even at Marvel now. I'm assuming (total guess here) it's because the full-script method gives more control to the writer, and maybe they're worried their TV writers will jump to Image instead of relinquishing control. So it's likely this was full-script after all, in which case it's not the worst art.

In a quick re-read, the colors kinda muddy up the artwork, too. The style looks like it would benefit more from a brighter palette and possibly also from less shading. (Shading can do amazing things, but it doesn't work as well on all styles as people seem to think.)

I'm only doing all this research and re-reading because you said you like the guy, and I'd expect someone like you with real art skill (of which I have very little) to not hold talentless hacks in high esteem. But, now that the initial disgust of the story is not a factor, I can see that the art itself is not a problem in and of itself. I'd fire the colorist and have the writer executed.
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Re: Diabolical, I thought you were exaggerating....

Post by anarky »

Sorry for the double post, but it looks like this Fraction guy hails from the same hometown where I grew up, and is only about three months younger (a guy younger than me writing a high-profile book like this? yeesh!). I don't believe I know the guy, though. I'd really like to say I kicked his ass in first grade but, alas, I cannot.

Also, back to the storytelling thing, the issue where he was fighting the alien had gorgeously painted images (though some of the anatomy was a little questionable), but shitty storytelling. I'd say the signs point to me eating some words about Walker, and Fraction just controlling the entire flow of the story despite not being very good at it.

When you're wishing for the days of Nicieza and Lobdell, you know something's amiss. Maybe they should can Fraction and bring Chuck Dixon onto PWJ. That man could tell a fun old-school Punisher story.

Apologies, Mister Walker. I won't say you're a Wildman or a Bagley, but you're cool, after all.
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Re: Diabolical, I thought you were exaggerating....

Post by vynsane »

hey, everyone's fully entitled to their opinion, didn't meant to sway yours one way or the other, i was just surprised is all. could also be an example of the subject/character just not meshing with an art style. para example, i HATED mignola's work until he was on a book he really shined on, namely his own character. interesting that you bring up the "brighter colors" aspect, because you're right on the nose with that one - cory was co-creator and artist of the first few issues of invincible, where the colors were very bright. of course, bright colors don't really belong in frank's world at all...

but i'm doubly surprised as i love fraction's work on iron fist. could also be another example - a writer who doesn't mesh well with the character. sometimes you're on your dream gig, and sometimes you just take a gig to pay the bills...

anyway. if you have any doubts on walker's abilities, check out his sketchblog

http://corenthal.blogspot.com/
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Re: Diabolical, I thought you were exaggerating....

Post by anarky »

You didn't exactly sway my opinion, but your endorsement caused me to examine it further. :)

On the one hand, I see where you're coming from when you say bright colors don't belong in a Punisher book. However, this is (for better or worse) a "superheroed-up" book, and he's fighting the Rhino with a giant fist-launcher (judging from the dialogue), I'd say it probably should have something other than the washed-out pallette that seems to be standard on most Marvel books lately. Maybe not full-on 60s Spider-Man, but not quite as bland as this.

Mignola's said before that he absolutely hated all the work he did prior to Hellboy, and just couldn't "get into it," which could be why you don't like that. On a related note, Dwayne Turner did an issue of Transformers (vol 1) that had some amazingly horrible art. But his art on Cage a year or so later I recall as being quite good. Similarly, as cool as it sounds in theory, Andrew Wildman on X-Men Adventures was incredibly underwhelming.

Fraction's doing Iron Fist, which seems to get no end of praise, and has one or two creator-owned books. Maybe, as bad as it sounds, he just figures a Punisher book will sell no matter what and is just rushing through it. Some writers can handle six or seven books a month, some have a hard time doing one on a regular schedule. I know from experience it's tougher to write some characters than others. Still, even if this is his "I'm doing this only for the money" title, I don't know that stuff that's this bad can be forgiven. Nicieza churned out a lot of bland work at the height of his fame (when he seemed to be writing every Marvel book), but I can't think of anything of his I'd say is outright bad.
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Re: NO!

Post by Diabolical »

Semi-confirmation from cover artist Tim Bradstreet:
In the midst of the craziness that IS Dark Country, I am also attempting to stay on schedule with my regular cover gigs. Working on a Punisher cover as we speak . . . and it will be one of my last.
That's right (and I'm saying it officially here first), I believe issue 60 of Punisher Max will be my last on the regular title. It's been a very exciting 8 years of my life working on The Punisher, but I've always maintained that I would leave the book when Garth (Ennis) left and my editor is holding me to it.
:frus:

At least I have 8 issues left...
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Re: NO!

Post by jjreason »

Shame. All you can hope for is a as seamless a transition to the new team as Brubaker made on Daredevil when he took over from Bendis.

Entourage, btw, is a HILARIOUS fucking show with tons of witty writing. Provided he "gets" the character, I'd think the changes would be alright.
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Re: NO!

Post by RoIIo Tomassi »

That Annual the guy wrote was pretty ho-hum. It's a tricky problem with following Ennis because you if you're too timid with your storylines, the book is gonna become boring, and if you try to out-Garth Garth then people will recognize your obvious attempt at just doing shock for shock's sake.

"In this story arc, Frank hunts down a guy who's sneaking into maternity wards and abusing preemies in the NICU ward..." or some shit.

Instead of giving it to a rookie, they should have asked Potts or someone to come back. I'm sure he had some ideas that were too hardcore for the regular title 20 years ago and would jump at the chance to explore them now.
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