NO! (Don't shoot me in the face! The Punisher Topic)

comics rock. talk about them here. now. or just go to the "corn" section and wack off. i'll understand. i'll just sit here and read my spider-man comics.

Moderators: Batman, Zero, John Madden, Bob Ross, General Zod, Richard Simmons

User avatar
RoIIo Tomassi
I HAVE THE POWER!!!
Posts: 2536
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:09 am
Location: Hollywood

Re: NO!

Post by RoIIo Tomassi »

It's sad that Marvel would take Punisher away from a great writer like Rucka and hand it to a hack like Daniel Way.
"Say Jim! Whoo! That is a bad outfit! Whoooo!"
User avatar
RoIIo Tomassi
I HAVE THE POWER!!!
Posts: 2536
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:09 am
Location: Hollywood

Re: NO!

Post by RoIIo Tomassi »

Started in on the unread Punisher pile. And I started with..

The most god forsaken awful absolute rock bottom Punisher story ever. I had to get it out of the way first. The 4 issue 1998 series. You know the one I mean. Wretched, wretched fiction. First off, the idea that Frank slunk into an alley somewhere and committed suicide was completely offensive.
But the grand finale was a billion times worse. Apparently the guy who ordered the hit that killed Frank's family was secretly a red flying monkey demon from hell who was trapped in an Italian mobster's body since birth and needed somebody to kill him so he could get back into Hell, because suicide wouldn't work. So he had the Castle family killed so Frank would become a one man war on crime and eventually find this douche and kill him.

I'm sorry, but I'm so :frus: right now and since it needs to be done and I'm not near you, I'm afraid you're all going to have to kick yourselves in the nuts.

Slightly less offensive was all the stupid shit about the Angels and the magic Angel guns Frank can conjure up. And all the goddamn letters on the letters page praising this diarrhea from supposedly long time Punisher fans.

Goddamn.

Okay, next up was the five issue Punisher vs Bullseye mini from 2006. By Daniel Way and Steve Dillon. Mostly it made Frank look like a jackass as he jumped through hoops and Bullseye was always a step ahead of him, tricking Frank into wiping out an entire Mob family so Bullseye can collect a fee from another Mob family. Yet another reason to dislike Daniel Way.

Thirdly was the Punisher War Zone mini from 2009 by Ennis and Dillon. It was a follow up to the Welcome Back Frank 12 issue series where Ennis got the Punisher back to doing what he was supposed to. I only have the first five issues here to read. The final issue I found a few years ago and it's over in storage, so I don't know how it ends.





Goddamn that '98 series makes me want to run over people with a wheat thresher. :x







Okay, I'm off to read some more Punisher stuff like the Back to School, Summer, and Holiday Specials. And probably the original '86 series just to clean my palette.
"Say Jim! Whoo! That is a bad outfit! Whoooo!"
User avatar
Diabolical
(includes alternate sneering hissy fit head sculpt)
Posts: 7061
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:40 pm
Location: Doofenshmirtz Evil, Inc.

Re: NO!

Post by Diabolical »

I flipped through that 98 monstrosity a few weeks back. My eyes started bleeding.

I'm slowly making my way through the Essential Punisher books. I've got all 4 volumes and in the midst of volume 3, where things starting to get a little mundane and repetitive. The end of volume 4 ends with Frank looking in the mirror and seeing...a black man!
Still better than that 98 series.
"As they say in China, 'Arrivederci'!"
Image
*For the creation of the Golden Deuce Award.
User avatar
anarky
sometimes not actually existing
Posts: 17590
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 4:50 pm
Location: Fucking shit up, yo!

Re: NO!

Post by anarky »

Y'know, I recall the story (a 7-parter, IIRC) where Frank winds up with a racelift starting really, really strongly, and completely petering out about halfway through until it was like a parody of the Punisher in the last couple of chapters.

Frank in jail, chopped up by Jigsaw, now that was some cools shit. And I still can see that one fucking badass Quesada cover of his jailbreak (and so can you, thanks to the internet!).

Image
Image
*--For behavior unbecoming anyone, perpetrated in real time over an extended--AH, FUCK IT! MORE MALIBU, BITCHES!!
User avatar
RoIIo Tomassi
I HAVE THE POWER!!!
Posts: 2536
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:09 am
Location: Hollywood

Re: NO!

Post by RoIIo Tomassi »

That 'Black Punisher' story was meant as sort of an issue "0" (before 0 issues existed) for the Cage series that came after. At this point, I don't know if Black Punisher would crack the top five of worst Punisher stories ever.

Meanwhile, I went back and read the original 'Circle of Blood' mini. Frank was a lot more...lenient..back then. He was leaving people alive left and right in that story.

I also read the three Punisher Back to School oneshots that came out in the falls of '92 thru '94. Nothing exceptional in there other than seeing some VERRRY early work from Dan Slott and "Dave" Eaglesham. Yes, they credited him incorrectly. Much of it felt like they were burning off inventory stories.

Also the three Punisher Holiday Specials from the same years. Those stories were a bit better. In one story, some mobsters ambush Frank in a Mall on Christmas Eve and he and a 15 year old transient need to fight their way out.
In another, Frank's in Kansas in the middle of winter to kill a mobster who turned state's evidence and is hiding in a farm house under the protection of Federal Marshals. But then the guys the mobster is ratting on show up to kill the guy and Frank has to go protect the guy's son.

Next up, the 4 Summer Specials and a slew of Prestige Oneshots.
"Say Jim! Whoo! That is a bad outfit! Whoooo!"
User avatar
Diabolical
(includes alternate sneering hissy fit head sculpt)
Posts: 7061
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:40 pm
Location: Doofenshmirtz Evil, Inc.

Re: NO!

Post by Diabolical »

RoIIo Tomassi wrote:That 'Black Punisher' story was meant as sort of an issue "0" (before 0 issues existed) for the Cage series that came after. At this point, I don't know if Black Punisher would crack the top five of worst Punisher stories ever.
Yeah, I don't know about that - it was pretty bad when it came out and is even worse today.

It might be fun to do our own Best & Worst Punisher stories.
I'd have be careful not to say "the entire Ennis run" though.
"As they say in China, 'Arrivederci'!"
Image
*For the creation of the Golden Deuce Award.
User avatar
RoIIo Tomassi
I HAVE THE POWER!!!
Posts: 2536
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:09 am
Location: Hollywood

Re: NO!

Post by RoIIo Tomassi »

The worst Punisher story is obviously the '98 series.

Number 2 would be the follow up to that series, a Punisher/Wolverine mini drawn by Pat Lee.

Third is obviously Frankenweenis.

Fourth would probably be Hobo Punisher from the end of the '96 series. Or maybe the ponytail Punisher is in charge of his own mob family from the beginning of the '96 series. In general, the '96 series is pretty weak.

And fifth? This.
Image
The current travesty happening in the new Thunderbolts series.


Oh, and if you decide the two Death Angel crapfests are one giant crapfest, then stick PunisherCap in there at 3,4, or 5.

So Black Punisher is at most sixth on the list. And probably even lower. I'm sure there are other crap stories I'm forgetting.
"Say Jim! Whoo! That is a bad outfit! Whoooo!"
User avatar
RoIIo Tomassi
I HAVE THE POWER!!!
Posts: 2536
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:09 am
Location: Hollywood

Re: NO!

Post by RoIIo Tomassi »

Finished the four Punisher Summer Specials. The highlight was Frank going up against a Snuff Film maker named Col. DeSade(who was introduced in one of the Back to School oneshots I read a couple days ago. Some other mediocre stories. Nothing awful. There was a cool silent story drawn by Brian Stelfreeze.

Then I read Daredevil/Punisher: Childs Play from 1989 and Punisher vs Daredevil from 2000. Both reprint the Frank Miller Daredevil issues 182-184. The 2000 issue also has issue 257. And a pretty awesome cover. One thing to note, Daredevil proposed to Heather Glenn the issue after he buried Elektra. Goddamn, Matt Murdock, you need a therapist.

Next up, Classic Punisher, which reprinted two early B/W stories from a couple Magazine sized issues Marvel put out in the 70s. Probably the first time the character was written as less a comic book villain and more like the badass anti hero he would morph in to. Good stuff.

And last, Punisher: No Escape. A prestige oneshot which I had already read, but I got again as part of an eBay auction I won to get some other Punisher books. The mob hires Paladin to kill Frank, and the Commission on Superhuman Affairs charges USAgent with bringing Frank in. Decent story by Greg Wright and art by the underrated Tod Smith.
"Say Jim! Whoo! That is a bad outfit! Whoooo!"
User avatar
RoIIo Tomassi
I HAVE THE POWER!!!
Posts: 2536
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:09 am
Location: Hollywood

Re: NO!

Post by RoIIo Tomassi »

Finished up the rest of the Punisher oneshots I had left to read.

Empty Quarter. Frank heads to middle east, hooks up with a female Mossad agent and kills a bunch of terrorists. Also finally kills his longtime
nemesis, Saracen.
Die Hard in the Big Easy. Frank heads to N'awleans to kill some drug dealers and gets involved in some Voodoo malarkey. I'm often not a big fan of stories involving voodoo. Chicken feet don't scare me.
The Prize. A secret weapons auction leads Frank and a TV news reporter to Central America. The "weapon" turns out to be a Mark I Iron Man armor stolen from Stane Intl. So, Frank vs Iron Man. I'd read it before, it's still pretty good.
Bloodlines. Gerry Conway and Dave Cockrum wrote and drew this 1991 Prestige book that's set six months into Frank's new career. He's visiting a friend with whom he served in VietNam and his wife with whom Frank almost started a romance many years earlier. After they're both gunned down by drug dealers, Frank has to team up with the druglord's estranged teenage son to rescue his dead friends' young daughter. It's great to see Conway revisit his creation and of course Cockrum is always a treat.

Silent Night. A 2006 oneshot from Andy Diggle and Kyle Hotz. A former consigliere comes out of WitSec to have a Christmas celebration at the orphanage where he grew up. Which leads the mobsters who he turned in to come out of hiding to kill him. The Christmas party needs a Santa...enter Frank. Spoiler! He kills everybody.

Also read the last couple of issues I was missing from the '96 series. But the less said about those the better.
"Say Jim! Whoo! That is a bad outfit! Whoooo!"
User avatar
Tom Foolery
I HAVE THE POWER!!!
Posts: 4721
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:57 pm
Location: I bought a house!

Re: NO!

Post by Tom Foolery »

YES!! (see? That's a callback to the origin of this topic)


Garth Ennis is returning to The Punisher!!!
A mini series is coming out next year. Sadly, not an ongoing.
"No Tom Foolery today, Ron. I'm tired of looking at your dreadful, speckled mug."
"Why do you hurt me in this way, Harry?"
”It’s a grid system motherfucker. Eleven up and one over, you simple bitch.”

Image
User avatar
Diabolical
(includes alternate sneering hissy fit head sculpt)
Posts: 7061
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:40 pm
Location: Doofenshmirtz Evil, Inc.

Re: NO!

Post by Diabolical »

Tom Foolery wrote:YES!! (see? That's a callback to the origin of this topic)


Garth Ennis is returning to The Punisher!!!
A mini series is coming out next year. Sadly, not an ongoing.
Hey, I'll take it.
"As they say in China, 'Arrivederci'!"
Image
*For the creation of the Golden Deuce Award.
User avatar
anarky
sometimes not actually existing
Posts: 17590
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 4:50 pm
Location: Fucking shit up, yo!

Re: NO!

Post by anarky »

Oh fuck, comics.org no longer allows links? Fuck, I need another go-to source for covers.
Image
*--For behavior unbecoming anyone, perpetrated in real time over an extended--AH, FUCK IT! MORE MALIBU, BITCHES!!
User avatar
Tom Foolery
I HAVE THE POWER!!!
Posts: 4721
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:57 pm
Location: I bought a house!

Re: NO!

Post by Tom Foolery »

anarky wrote:Oh fuck, comics.org no longer allows links? Fuck, I need another go-to source for covers.
It's not like the website comicbookdb.com has been bandied about like 100 times around here or anything... :roll:
It even has a 'gallery' feature were you can see all the covers at once.
"No Tom Foolery today, Ron. I'm tired of looking at your dreadful, speckled mug."
"Why do you hurt me in this way, Harry?"
”It’s a grid system motherfucker. Eleven up and one over, you simple bitch.”

Image
User avatar
Tom Foolery
I HAVE THE POWER!!!
Posts: 4721
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:57 pm
Location: I bought a house!

Re: NO!

Post by Tom Foolery »

Hey! I think I just figured out who the ersatz Punisher running around in Thunderbolts is. The answer has been staring us all right in the face. He's been wearing it on his chest the entire time.

Fake Castle is....Dell Rusk.
"No Tom Foolery today, Ron. I'm tired of looking at your dreadful, speckled mug."
"Why do you hurt me in this way, Harry?"
”It’s a grid system motherfucker. Eleven up and one over, you simple bitch.”

Image
User avatar
Diabolical
(includes alternate sneering hissy fit head sculpt)
Posts: 7061
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:40 pm
Location: Doofenshmirtz Evil, Inc.

Re: NO!

Post by Diabolical »

Tom Foolery wrote:Hey! I think I just figured out who the ersatz Punisher running around in Thunderbolts is. The answer has been staring us all right in the face. He's been wearing it on his chest the entire time.

Fake Castle is....Dell Rusk.
I like the idea.


There's a new two-issue Punisher mini-series coming out this month by Marc Guggenheim and Francis Leinil Yu - The Trail of The Punisher - which has nothing to do with the end of Rucka's run. It was written back in 2006 (as a one-shot) and was the first thing Guggenheim ever wrote for Marvel.
Apparently it was even solicited back in '06 and then shelved.
Hopes are not high for this, but at least its something (kinda) new.
"As they say in China, 'Arrivederci'!"
Image
*For the creation of the Golden Deuce Award.
Post Reply