The current state of disarray at Marvel

[jjreason]

DD20, yet another reset of the DD status quo - no one knows his name and he's back in NYC.... again. Setting up to continue along with the new Iron Fist, Kingpin & Elektra series that have all started within the past few months and will lead in to Defenders starting in June. I'm out. My DD interest ended with Mark Waid's departure.

[jjreason]

So I'm reading Secret Empire 3, and I realize that I am having a very difficult time figuring out who the fuck half the people are. It's not a good comic.

[Tom Foolery]

Marvel's next big thing is this Legacy "event/relaunch/not-a-relaunch/rebranding" thing this fall. They are reducing their number of ongoings to 52(HMMMMM) and going back to the "Legacy" numbering on a number of titles. Most of the titles currently in place are staying.
From what I could tell the only new titles are Falcon, Marvel Two-in-One, Spirits of Vengeance, and Moon Knight. And Falcon and Moon Knight are replacing the Sam Wilson Cap series and the recently ended Lemire MoonKnight series.

Books getting canned are Groot, Rocket, Totally Awesome Hulk, both Iron Man series(replaced with a new Invincible Iron Man book), the second Dr Strange book, Wasp, Ultimates2, Nick Fury, and both Cap titles. Presumably giving the character a break after Secret Empire ends. The only real loss there is Ultimates2, and to a lesser extent, that Wasp book.

This isn't exactly the earth shattering shakeup Marvel needs to get back in the game against DC and their Rebirth. I've said this already, but Axel Alonso needs to step aside as EiC. Fresh blood to shake things up or they're going to keep hemorrhaging readers.

Here's the list of books still going/starting:

Spider-Man Vs Deadpool, Mighty Thor, Ms Marvel, Falcon, Peter Parker The Spectacular Spider-Man, Weapon X, Marvel Two-In-One, Hawkeye, Guardians Of The Galaxy, Champions, Secret Warriors, Old Man Logan, Luke Cage, Invincible Iron Man, Iceman, Cable, X-Men Blue, Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows, Hulk, Astonishing X-Men, Moon Girl & Devil Dinosaur, America, X-Men Gold, USAvengers, Squirrel Girl, Spirits Of Vengeance, Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen, Jessica Jones, Jean Grey, Gwenpool, Generation X, Doctor Strange, Defenders, Daredevil, Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Venom, Scarlet Spider, She-Hulk, Monsters Unleashed, Black Bolt, Amazing Spider-Man, All-New Wolverine, Royals, Punisher, Moon Knight, Deadpool, Iron Fist, Thanos, Avengers, Uncanny Avengers.

[anarky]

So one new book is Moon Knight.

Which means 51 ongoing books.

(I like the character, but, damn, that boy can't sustain an ongoing.)

[Tom Foolery]

I'm curious as to whether these "new" books like Moon Knight, Marvel 2in1, etc will immediately kick of with their Legacy numbering.

Or, as I've advocated a half a hundred times; DUAL NUMBERING. and while they're at it, add the fucking Month and Year on there as well. That's one thing I like about DC. Even with their repeated relaunches and reboots, I can look at the UPC box and see the M/Y and figure out which series an issue is from.

[jjreason]

52 is weird. I'm guessing somehow it's 12 standard books per week with the others coming during the extra 5th Wednesday that occurs a few times per year. I can't see how else 52 works so well both companies would need to use it.

People will get drawn back into legacy numbering for a few classic books like ASM, Uncanny & Avengers, but does anyone really care that Venom recently got his 150th issue? I'm reasonably certain the sales weren't off the charts for that one.

[Tom Foolery]

The only thing I enjoy about the Legacy issues, is that they usually have a montage of covers in the back of the book showing ALL the covers and how they got to the "Legacy" number. If they made posters of that shit, I'd buy the fuck out of them. It'd be like a visual checklist hanging on your walls.

Yeah, I don't get 52. 52 weeks in a year, maybe? What I don't get is why Marvel would go anywhere near that number as a marketing ploy. DC has had a lock on it for even longer than the New52 stuff. They had a couple weekly series with that title, and when they relaunched their multiverse after Infinite Crisis, they decided there were 52 universes. So by using that number, Marvel is subconsciously advertising for DC whether they want to or not. It's a number associated with DC.

[Tom Foolery]

Here's the list of books still going/starting:

Spider-Man Vs Deadpool, Mighty Thor, Ms Marvel, Falcon, Peter Parker The Spectacular Spider-Man, Weapon X, Marvel Two-In-One, Hawkeye, Guardians Of The Galaxy, Champions, Secret Warriors, Old Man Logan, Luke Cage, Invincible Iron Man, Iceman, Cable, X-Men Blue, Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows, Hulk, Astonishing X-Men, Moon Girl & Devil Dinosaur, America, X-Men Gold, USAvengers, Squirrel Girl, Spirits Of Vengeance, Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen, Jessica Jones, Jean Grey, Gwenpool, Generation X, Doctor Strange, Defenders, Daredevil, Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Venom, Scarlet Spider, She-Hulk, Monsters Unleashed, Black Bolt, Amazing Spider-Man, All-New Wolverine, Royals, Punisher, Moon Knight, Deadpool, Iron Fist, Thanos, Avengers, Uncanny Avengers.

Here's which titles are reverting to Legacy numbering. And what the issue number is. How they arrived at these numbers is a research project I'm not inclined to begin at this hour.

Mighty Thor 700
Peter Parker, the SSM 297
Guardians of the Galaxy 146
Luke Cage 166
Invincible Iron Man 593
Cable 150
Hulk 709
Spider-Man 234
Generation X 85
Doctor Strange 381
Daredevil 595
Captain Marvel 125
Black Panther 166
Venom 155(started with 150)
She-Hulk 159
Amazing Spidey 789
Punisher 218
Moon Knight 188
Despicable Deadpool 287
Iron Fist 73
Avengers 672

The rest of the books will continue with their current numbering. I don't know why certain books like Astonishing X-Men or Defenders don't merit Legacy numbering. Champions? Secret Warriors? Weapon X? Scarlet Spider? Hawkeye? All of these books had previous series. In fact, the majority of the books have had previous series.

I'm also prematurely a bit peeved, because I know this won't last and in a year or so we will get a bunch of new number 1s and the confusion will continue.

[jjreason]

Man I'm really surprised that so many of those series are hitting milestone issues soon. What were the chances of that?

[anarky]

What does 166 include in Luke Cage? Power Man & Iron Fist? 1990s Cage? Marvel Knights Luke Cage?

[Tom Foolery]

What does 166 include in Luke Cage? Power Man & Iron Fist? 1990s Cage? Marvel Knights Luke Cage?

The original PM/IF run = 125
Cage(90s) = 20
The new PM/IF run from last year = 15
And I'm assuming the current Luke Cage series will be up to issue 5 or 6 by then.
I thought maybe the 2011 PM/IF miniseries, but I don't think they need it.

[Tom Foolery]

How did we get to Thor 700--

The original series(which started as Journey into Mystery and was retitled Thor with issue 126) went to issue 502. Then Onslaught/Heroes Reborn happened. The title then returned to being Journey into Mystery and went for a few more issues, but those don't count as Thor. So= 502

The Heroes Reborn series from 1998 lasted 85 issues until Disassembled. Then Thor went on a 3 year hiatus. 85.(587)

JMS and Coipel relaunched Thor in 2007. It went 12 issues, then reverted to Legacy numbering with 600 and went to issue 621. The series then reverted yet again to JiM and went to issue 655, but again those numbers don't count for Thor. But you should still read them because that was Gillen's Kid Loki series which was beyond excellent. 621.

The Mighty Thor by Fraction and Coipel kicked off in 2011 and ran concurrently with the reverted JIM title above. 22 issues(643)

Thor God of Thunder kicked off Jason Aaron's run on the series in 2012. It lasted 25 issues (668)

Jane Foster became Thor in 2014's Thor and that lasted 8 issue before the Secret Wars relaunch. 8 issues(676)

And the current Mighty Thor series is on issue 20 and will be at 24 by the time the Legacy kicks in yet again. 700.

[Tom Foolery]

How did we get to Peter Parker the Spectacular Spider Man 297--

This one's pretty easy.
The original 1976 run went to issue 263
The 2003 series went 27 issues. And also a 1000th issue one in 2011, but I don't think they're counting that one. So. 27(290)
And the current series just started, giving it enough time to get them last 7 issues.

[Tom Foolery]

How did we get to Guardians 146--

Jim Valentina's 1990 series went 62 issues.

After Annihilation, the GoGs got completely revamped in 2008 and the future cinematic stars had a 25 issue series(87)

Bendis got ahold of them in 2013 thanks to their super popular film debut. That series lasted 27 issues (114)

Then post SW they relaunched again, still with Bendis, for another 19 issues (133)

The new All New GoGs series by Gerry Dugan just started up, but that's not gonna get you to 146 in time.
So maybe the Guardians Team Up series from 2015 that ran 10 issues? No, because that would go over the limit.
Maybe the Mother Entropy mini that just happened? 5 issues?
I honestly don't know.

[Tom Foolery]

How did we get to Iron Man 593--
(I'm just doing these in the order of the list, which is the order Marvel put the list out in. No discernible alphabetical or numerical order...)

The original 1968 series went to issue 332. Then Onslaught happened.
Heroes Reborn went 13 issues(345)
Heroes Return series from 1998 went 89 issues(434)
The Warren Ellis Extremis series kicked off in 2005. It went thru a couple of name changes(adding Invincible with issue 17, becoming Director of SHIELD with issue 29) until finishing with issue 35. The last three issues may be attributed to War Machine, so we'll leave them out of the count. So 32 issues(466)
Matt Fraction's 2008 series went 33 issues, then Legacy numbering 1.0 hit 500 and lasted another 27 issues, finishing at 527(527)
Kieran Gillen's 2013 series lasted 28 issues(555)
Superior Iron Man ran a paltry 9 issues(564)
Bendis' 2015 series ran 14 issues(578) and International Iron Man ran 7 issues(585)
The current Iron RiRi is on issue 8. Which would put it at 593 right now. So maybe Intl' IM doesn't count.
And I would say Infamous Iron Doom doesn't count either obviously.